r/Conservative Beltway Republican 14d ago Helpful 5 Wholesome 4 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Bravo Grande! 1 Tearing Up 1 To The Stars 1 'MURICA 1 Silver 2

Killers of Ahmaud Arbery Found Guilty Of Murder Flaired Users Only

https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/24/ahmaud-arbery-verdict-guilty-travis-gregory-mcmichael/
10.7k Upvotes

676

u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 6d ago

[removed]

125

u/Comprehensive-Ad4656 14d ago

The cops are just as guilty. They made them believe that it was ok to be vigilantes. I mean what police Dept allows armed citizens to join an investigation!!

40

u/ohhh-that-is-it 14d ago

Moderate here. I hope I don’t get removed but genuinely looking for a real discourse. In the Rittenhouse case, I believe he was innocent based on the laws in the state, but I don’t think we should encourage untrained citizens to be policing even if there is vandalism happening. The police did seem to appreciate him being there, which I get when you feel like the public doesn’t have your back. Just a note that I know a lot of liberals and moderates who have a much more nuanced view on police than either side of the media portrays. What are everyone’s thoughts around this concept?

36

u/Frankfusion Conservative 14d ago

I am of the belief that Kyle probably had his heart in the right place but every single decision he made was wrong. And I'm just disappointed that there wasn't an adult with a few brain cells that didn't stop him and his friends from going out there and putting themselves in very serious Danger.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/Chewyk132 Conservative Canadian 14d ago

I think they were charged as well

→ More replies

2.6k

u/Unable-Reindeer-7468 14d ago Wholesome This

It’s the right call.

686

u/juiceboxguy85 14d ago Helpful

I mean if dude was jogging down the street with a skill saw from that build site it would maybe be a little more understandable but he wasn’t even carrying anything. So why the fuck did these idiots try to citizens arrest a guy for essentially trespassing? Dumb mother fuckers deserve jail. Justice is served.

539

u/halfman-halfshark Conservative 14d ago

I'm not sure what the law says, but resisting a citizen's arrest should not be a crime. One should not have to allow their self to be kidnapped by strangers because they stole a Skil saw.

193

u/BurgerOfLove 14d ago

It's not. You are within your rights to defend yourself.

22

u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine 13d ago

And one of the charges was wrongful imprisonment.

→ More replies

86

u/greatatdrinking Constitutional Conservative 14d ago edited 14d ago

In GA, if you witness a felony take place and/or you have "reasonable and probable suspicion" that one has taken place, you have the right to pursue and detain the suspect with force if necessary in a citizen's arrest

That wasn't the case here which is why these dummies are going to go to jail for a very long time

edit: had. At the time of the arbery murder and by the laws they had in place at that time, they had these citizen's arrest laws in place. See further down the thread for more details about the repeal and what it means

66

u/ThunderBuss 14d ago

No felony. Trespassing isn’t a felony. They weren’t within their rights to do a citizens arrest. Bottom line I don’t want a group of assholes stop me with a gun pointed at me. God knows what could happen.

→ More replies

8

u/bonebrother 14d ago

This law has been changed since this incident I believe.

→ More replies

91

u/Dayquil_epic 14d ago Take My Energy

They are more than dummies, they are racist murderers

→ More replies
→ More replies

11

u/undakai Conservative 14d ago

Not sure if it's a crime to resist citizens arrest if you're committing a felony (I think the felony itself covers that) but it certainly isn't a crime to defend yourself from an unlawful arrest such as these guys were performing.

→ More replies

165

u/ccizek2 14d ago

Even if dude was running with a skill saw, that’s still not means for a private citizen to kill that individual.

33

u/aguyfromnewjersey 14d ago

yeah this is what I dont get, say he was 1000% stealing shit.... call the cops bro, thats what theyre for

3

u/LonelyMachines 2A Conservative 13d ago

Even though Georgia used to have a citizen's arrest law (it was repealed last year), it was never a good idea to try it. Massad Ayoob has a book on armed self-defense called In the Gravest Extreme, and he devotes a whole chapter to the "Dangerous Myth of the Citizen's Arrest." Just don't. Even if it's legal, just don't. The potential for liability is huge, and unlike police departments, you don't have an army of lawyers and qualified immunity to protect you if it goes wrong.

Now in this case, it wasn't even legal under the old Georgia law. This wasn't a citizen's arrest because they had no reason to suspect Arbery was in the process of committing a felony. If they were so sure of that, they could have just called the police. Trust me, Glynn county is so blatantly racist, they'd have brought out half the force on a "black man in our nice golf club neighborhood" call in a flash.

→ More replies
→ More replies

13

u/Jazzlike_Log_709 14d ago

The amount of times I've seen "man with a machete on my neighbor's property" on Citizen or NextDoor is ridiculous. Spoiler: man with a machete is a gardener doing his job. There is absolutely no reason to perform a citizens arrest in so many circumstances

→ More replies

140

u/Seeleyski 14d ago

Yeah, murder is the correct punishment for petty theft.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2.0k

u/f1sh98 Beltway Republican 14d ago edited 14d ago

I would’ve been very surprised if their self defense case worked.

You usually aren’t too worried about being attacked if you’re the one chasing them

Edit: Since I’m top comment I may as well throw in that the case was slightly more complicated than the media narrative played it out to be. I won’t comment on the verdict because I didn’t watch the trial and don’t have any special knowledge or divine divination

565

u/vitavolunteer44 14d ago

It wasn't self defense if they are the one provoking the incident. They had to prove they were legally allowed to conduct a civilian arrest in order to avoid this charge and they didn't. Thats why all the charges came down

518

u/autumn_melancholy Conservative Moderate 14d ago Silver Wholesome

Exactly. This is why Monday morning legal quarterbacking is ridiculous, and the media should stop commenting on these cases.

Each side had a credible self defense claim:

  • Ahmad reached for a weapon after being surrounded and was shot dead.
  • These men believed they were conducting a legal citizens arrest and cornered a suspect, the suspect seized a shotgun after assaulting these men, and therefore the men fired and killed Arbery.

The kicker was: Did the three men have a legal right to stop Arbery under a citizen's arrest?

  • If he was suspected for a felony level theft, which they would have to have had evidence for thinking this, then they would have had the legal right to perform a citizens arrest, and they would have walked and been exonerated.
  • If they didn't have evidence or directly see it, for the suspicion, they had no legal right to stop him and falsely imprison him.

We know from the trial that the 3 guys who stopped him were not aware of the finer points of this law, actual reason (because correlation != causation) to suspect him other than his presence in a normally deserted, and recently burglarized area. A hunch and correlation is NOT good enough to perform a citizen's arrest. Therefore, Arbery's rights were infringed, and his attempt to defend himself was warranted, as he was being falsely imprisoned.

What I love seeing here is the leftists who came seething, only to find out that we are moral absolutists, and support the conclusion the Jury came up with, and the rule of law.

327

u/therealkellyoubre 14d ago

Liberal here, who followed both trials. Rittenhouse was chased= self defense. McMichaels did the chasing= not self defense. Idk why this is so hard for some people to get

58

u/autumn_melancholy Conservative Moderate 14d ago

That's surface level.

They had no right to chase him under citizen's arrest laws, because he hadn't committed a felony in front of them. If he had, they would be walking free. Without the protection of the law, they were aggressors, and they didn't have the protection of the law, so that made them aggressors, then the chasing and detaining makes it false imprisonment, and then they have no case for self-defense. Were they protected by that law, they would have had the case for self defense, because Arbery went out fighting. He attacked one of them and seized a shotgun before being fatally wounded.

Laws are laws even when they are unpopular, though, GA immediately repealed this law after their arrests.

4

u/omarting 14d ago

This is the more interesting point for me to ponder. What if they had proved reasonable suspicions and validated their citizen's arrest? What a doozy a 'not guilty' would have been in this trial.

9

u/vitavolunteer44 14d ago

The problem is that they had to witness the crime and have probable cause that it was Arbery. The amount they had to prove was so vast that it would never have come to that

→ More replies
→ More replies

37

u/HaircutShredder We the People 14d ago

Watch out, you white supremacist! /s

→ More replies

231

u/BreninLlwyd7 14d ago

Its really great to see -

"You thought Rittenhouse was innocent! What do you think about the McMichaels?!"

"uhm - they're clearly guilty of murder"

"..."

56

u/_Maxie_ Conservative 14d ago

My answer is usually "literally who?"

→ More replies

26

u/kaioto Constitutionalist 14d ago

They key part here is being guilty of felony murder: someone died who otherwise would not have died because you committed a felony other than murder - so you catch the murder charge too. Felony murder convictions have some real problems on the fringes, though.

A guy driving the get-away car when a bank-robber shoots a guard - that's the guy this kind of law is designed to convict.

A car thief who gets life in prison because the cops recklessly veered into a bunch of pedestrians trying to set up a pit maneuver of something like a pack of sociopaths? Now I'm a lot less comfortable.

An unarmed guy swiped the cash out of a register and the janitor on the other side of the store has a heart attack? Yeah, now we're just abusing the law.

8

u/DopplerShiftIceCream Conservative 14d ago

Ones that changed my mind about that law are when a suspect flees the police, the police chase, then the police get in a traffic accident and someone dies.

3

u/Mewster1818 Constitutional Conservative 14d ago

That's why some areas have laws that are supposed to ban police from certain kinds of pursuits (anything where they've basically deemed the risk of hurting innocent civilians is too high to justify the reward of catching a criminal.)

Of course that's not true everywhere, and the laws are different from one jurisdiction to another. Granted I think sometimes that makes reasonable sense, because as an example an extended high speed chase in say the middle of the countryside is not equally as risky as one through a highly populated area like a city.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

12

u/My___Cabbages MAGA 14d ago

Your summary is the best I have read about this case.

43

u/Dazzling_Arrival3722 14d ago

I’m super liberal and I came here to read these comments because I knew it was something we’d all agree on. These guys murdered an innocent man .

26

u/KillsburyShowBoy 14d ago

The thing is, the Rittenhouse case just as easily should have been something that both sides were capable of coming together to see that the kid really didn’t do anything wrong, and handled himself better than most full grown adults would have.

22

u/HWKII 14d ago

It would have been, had the media not purposefully manipulated the narrative around Rittenhouse while bending over backwards pretending a bunch of yahoos hurdling a burning dumpster towards a gas station were just peacefully holding vigil.

The sad fact is, we've been pit against one another by a 24 hour media bombardment controlled by a very small cabal the of exceptionally wealthy who are desperate to distract us while they loot our democracy for all it's worth.

All of this has led even mainstream Democrats and Republicans to entertain some absolutely wild-ass ideas and seek coalition with the criminally, bat shit insane.

9

u/HellImNewWhatDoIDo2 14d ago

Sometimes I get incredibly frustrated that most people don’t realize this.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

98

u/[deleted] 14d ago Wholesome

[deleted]

50

u/ArtoriasBeaIG 14d ago

I’m liberal leaning (but years living in California are pulling me rightward). Just want to say I’m genuinely happy to see the response to this case in this sub.

I'm probably considered left/Liberal by most too but I like learning more about the right (not the extreme side, the side that is happy to exchange and discuss ideas, even if they disagree) and have some views that are probably considered right leaning anyway.

I've always liked the open-minded attitude that seems to prevail here :D it's OK to disagree with people!

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/hubblehubb 14d ago

Very well said. I agree 100%

→ More replies
→ More replies

236

u/Many-Sherbert 2A 14d ago

Idk ask gaige

36

u/ZXB-VC 14d ago

You mean Mr Bye-cep

30

u/TheSecond48 Conservative 14d ago

I love how sullen he was when he was on the stand. "...I see my bicep being vaporized...😒"

"Yes, and when your bicep was being vaporized..."

lmao

→ More replies
→ More replies

247

u/dirkMcdirkerson Responsibility 4 Oneself 14d ago

Exactly. People want to draw a line between this and Rittenhouse. The parallels are different than what the left tries to make it out to be. The left tries to make Rittenhouse out to be like these 3 men. Difference is Rittenhouse is closer to being ahmud. They were both chased by 3 white men trying to attack them. Rittenhouse had a gun to defend himself. I wish ahmud had too. The outcome of both cases are correct. And that last sentence is where the left can't fathom conservatives. Actually having standards they stick to, instead of changing based on racial narratives.

162

u/BathWifeBoo Conservative 14d ago

Its a fair comparison to make.

Arbery is what happens to Kyle if he doesn't have a gun.

16

u/SaltAd2986 14d ago

love that!....except the liberal media is not comparing it in that context. MSM is looking at Kyle like he is the aggressor, riddiculously.

→ More replies
→ More replies

10

u/Regalalgae Carlson Conservative 14d ago

+1 you are 100% correct

→ More replies

66

u/richard0930 2A 14d ago

But if the victim were black, not one of the defendants would have been found guilty...

Oh wait...

39

u/pabmendez 14d ago

They were originally not charged. It was not until 3 months later when the video was leaked that they had pressure to charge them

→ More replies

42

u/Straw_Hat_Jimbei 14d ago

So I guess you’re ignoring the fact that the DA told police not to make an arrest due to her being friends with the McMichaels, and the only reason charges were filed was due to massive protest…

24

u/Willy_Fred Conservative Federalist 14d ago

If that is the case the DA should be fired and disbarred.

→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/MET1 Constitutional Conservative 14d ago

The video was the key.

22

u/ScumbagGina Enlightenment Conservative 14d ago

The difference is they probably would’ve/could’ve/should’ve convicted these men without the video. In Kyle’s case the video is the only thing that saved him

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/FlyGuy3 14d ago

Trayvon Martin?

13

u/CaliforniaGiraffe 14d ago

They almost didn’t press charges so…

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/HaplessMagician Fiscal Conservative 14d ago

I thought this was a great breakdown of the defense admitting that they were guilty: (I don't know much about Nate the Lawyer's YT channel, but seems to have a good breakdown on this) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEg5oTt6A2I

3

u/biffmaniac Conservative 14d ago

thanks for the link! I watched Nate's take on this case and the Rittenhouse case. he explains things great and has a clear look at the facts. great guy!

→ More replies
→ More replies

1.7k

u/OTN 14d ago Silver Take My Energy Starry

Good. Justice was served.

655

u/ptabs226 14d ago

Draws a line. If you carry and are attacked - you are not a murderer. If you instigate the attack while carrying - you are a murderer.

359

u/JeepinArizona Conservative 14d ago

If you've ever done any firearms training then this has always been the reality.

Avoiding conflict is one of the first tenants when talking about doing any CCW.

114

u/j0sephl Moderate Conservative 14d ago

Avoiding conflicts is the first tenant of any self defense discipline. People post those videos of “how to disarm someone with a knife” videos and it’s the trainer turning and booking it down the street. It’s both funny in that moment (why it gets shared) and completely true.

→ More replies

69

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed]

101

u/thrash187 14d ago

Inserting yourself into a riot situation, regardless of your intentions, is a bad idea. Then again, I made plenty of dumb decisions when I was 17, so it’s a little tough to judge the kid on the wisdom of his choices.

17

u/Big-Employer4543 14d ago

We've all made poor choices, but poor choices do not excuse others to attack you while you are posing no threat to them.

13

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed]

10

u/LoremEpsomSalt 14d ago

His choices didn't get anyone killed - he never attacked anyone or forced anyone to attack him. That logic is some serious victim blaming.

→ More replies

23

u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 8d ago

[removed]

→ More replies

22

u/ihaveasandwitch 14d ago

Which bad decisions did he make? I saw excellent control, better than many police officers.

I assume you mean his bad decision was to exist in a space where rioters had decided only they had a right to be?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

18

u/Careless_Bat2543 14d ago

That has always been the law. Only people who think stand your ground laws are literally a license to murder have ever thought otherwise.

8

u/AFishNamedFreddie 14d ago

Yeah, that's how self defense works. I'm glad to see these court cases both go the right way

→ More replies
→ More replies

75

u/meatybone Moderate Conservative 14d ago

Agreed. We must trust in our system. These guys set out to lynch someone and I can't see anyone thinking otherwise.

38

u/just_shy_of_perfect Gen Z Conservative 14d ago

I don't think they set out there with the intent to kill him. I didn't think the trial showed that much.

But their unlawful actions resulted in the death of an individual. They were definitely chasing him. But I didn't think the trial showed their intent before leaving was to kill him

43

u/meatybone Moderate Conservative 14d ago

I might get some hate for this but if you suspect somebody of robbing houses in your neighborhood call the police or make a citizen's arrest if you can. When you grab a gun and head out looking for them that shows intent. If he had a holstered gun that he brings around on a regular basis that's a different story but he went and got a gun for the purpose of hunting this person down.

84

u/KDOK 14d ago

Dont ever make a citizens arrest. Just dont ever do it.

11

u/PunishedCokeNixon Buckleyite Conservative 14d ago

All they had to do was stay in their vehicle and follow him while on the phone with 911

→ More replies

14

u/meatybone Moderate Conservative 14d ago

The only time I would ever recommend this is if there was an active situation that was going to result in harm to others such as an active shooter

11

u/irvingdk 14d ago

That's not really a citizens arrest though. Restraining someone from actively harming others while waiting for police to arrive is different, it's honestly textbook self defense. Citizens arrest is closer to kidnapping in practice. It usually implies your going out of your way to hold somebody.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/Cinnadillo Conservative 14d ago

Hunting who down?

Edit: oh right, Aubrey. I was stuck on rittenhouse

17

u/JimJonesNeverDies 14d ago

If you make a citizen's arrest without a gun, don't you risk dying?

23

u/meatybone Moderate Conservative 14d ago

Then you should not be making a citizen's arrest which is not even legal in some places now. Call the police. Why would you put your life at danger for someone's property? But above all, they had no reason to make a citizen's arrest other than 'suspicion' which is not a crime.

21

u/realrealityreally 14d ago

LPT: Never make a citizens arrest.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

359

u/fifesydney 14d ago

I’m a lawyer. I’ve notice a few comments wondering how the other two could be accountable for murder despite not pulling the trigger, and I want to point out that felony murder is distinct from first degree (or in Georgia malice) murder. The other two men are guilty of felony murder because the murder of Arbery would not have occurred but for underlying felonies committed by them (aggravated assault, false imprisonment).

51

u/RealRaster 14d ago

In some states murder is charged if they acted along with the person committing the actual murder during a linked felony they were all committing at the same time.

Example: Three guys rob a bank, but only one of the robber shoots someone during the robbery.

27

u/fifesydney 14d ago

Don’t know if I was clear but you are describing felony murder, which is what all three defendants were convicted of here.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

737

u/pew_pew420420 14d ago

See what isn't self defense? Lesson learned America

509

u/Fu11m3ta111 14d ago edited 14d ago Silver Starry

Idk, I'm glad that /r/Conservative is mostly in support of this verdict but I'm seeing most of conservative Twitter/FB/Youtube reciting the same lines of him being a criminal that had the right to die the second he grabbed the gun, and that a guilty verdict is just indicative of mob justice. I get those are cesspools of the internet as far as discussion goes, but they are still everyday people that refute basic principles of law when presented in front of them.

Edit: I'll redact much of what I said, now that the trial is getting the national spotlight. Places like Fox and Daily Wire seem to have many users agreeing with the verdict and wishing for the nation to heal. For an idea of what takes I was talking about pre-verdict, just skim through this video to see a conservative law channel debate with 90% of his chat for multiple hours on why a not guilty verdict makes no sense. Might have been a higher number of far-right cases just searching for whatever confirmation bias they could

194

u/Mr_Nuttutty 14d ago

I would argue this thread is a much better representation of your average joe, like you said Twitter/FB/YT will only make your day worse lol

28

u/humblepharmer 14d ago

ESPECIALLY twitter, lol

24

u/Fu11m3ta111 14d ago

To be fair I honestly have no idea who represents the average joe better, so I could be completely wrong. For my own sanity I want to believe what you're saying, but so much of the crazy liberal shit on front page reddit is stuff I never hear IRL, while FB/Twitter folks are often people's actual face/name talking about their opinions without caring about being downvoted

15

u/1-5-3-6-2-4 14d ago

Twitter, like much of social media, is a cesspool of humanity, with a few notable exceptions.

→ More replies

14

u/QuitArguingWithMe 14d ago

Unfortunately there are people making similar arguments in this thread if you scroll up and down a bit.

→ More replies
→ More replies

40

u/SofieTerleska 14d ago

I'm also a visiting liberal and meant to just read but I wanted to say that Twitter in general is horrific for political takes no matter what side of the aisle you're on. Twitter on Rittenhouse was really, really bad, whereas Reddit had a lot more mixed opinion and people willing to believe the evidence of their eyes instead of some blue checkmark's inflammatory comment.

16

u/MayorEricBlazecetti 14d ago

Twitter is full of Chinese/Russian bots who only serve to make America more and more divided. They post extremist bullshit from both sides of the fence.

22

u/knightbaby 14d ago

Are these conservative influencers on twitter saying this or random people on twitter?

29

u/Fu11m3ta111 14d ago

Pretty sure mostly randos

→ More replies

22

u/lazergunpewpewpew Conservative 14d ago

but I'm seeing most of conservative Twitter/FB/Youtube reciting the same lines of him being a criminal that had the right to die

I'm not seeing this by Conservatives anywhere.

14

u/Fu11m3ta111 14d ago edited 14d ago

I watched the rekieta law coverage of Kyle last week, and was curious to see if they would defend McMichaels knowing that they mostly have a right-wing bias.

Just scroll through Viva's stream and read the comments on screen and on the side. It's an hour+ of a conservative host arguing with 90% of his chat on why not guilty is a bad take. This is the biggest example of it, but I've found those same sentiments on countless other videos.

To play devil's advocate against myself, I checked FB articles just now regarding the verdict and they are almost all happy with it. I did however read FB comments mid-trial that drew parallels to the Kyle case of it being self-defense

→ More replies
→ More replies

7

u/WeaponofChoice48 14d ago

Cough, George Zimmerman, cough.

→ More replies

63

u/doctor_skate 14d ago

Curious of this threads thoughts on the now-convicted murderers being allowed to leave the scene with no arrest or investigation for several weeks/months. They killed someone and the police/ DA originally had no problem until the video became viral.

35

u/LonelyMachines 2A Conservative 13d ago

I can actually answer that from personal experience.

To put it mildly, Glynn County is a racist cesspool that embodies the worst kind of nepotistic corruption people think of when they stereotype the "deep south."

If you're black and living in that area, you're working menial labor with no hope of advancement or economic mobility. If you're white, it's because you moved into one of the multi-million dollar golf resorts with gates and private security. There's really no in-between, and that plays into a soft but very real form of soft segregation.

(If you're Hispanic, you're practically invisible there.)

The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center is near there, and I've been a couple of times for seminars. It seems everybody knew or had heard something about corruption and cover-ups in Glynn County. This isn't the first time they've covered up suspicious shootings. So, yeah: when someone like McMichael does something like what he did, they say "the black guy shouldn't have been there," they close ranks around their own, and the case (if there even is one) is closed.

If there's a bright light in this whole thing, it's that the GBI and FBI are tearing things apart down there right now. The former sheriff and several deputies are being held to account, and the DA who chose not to pursue charges has been indicted.

TL;DR: The murders were able to leave the scene because of a culture of racism and corruption. Nobody supports that. Arbery's death was a tragedy, but it looks like it's spurring real change. Our "citizen's arrest" law has been repealed, and the people who allowed the cover-up to happen are definitely going to suffer the consequences.

14

u/Griegz Federalist 14d ago

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm willing to bet cash that quite a few of the subscribers to this subreddit aren't really fucking cool with that either.

→ More replies
→ More replies

84

u/GoGabeGo 14d ago

I'm genuinely happy with how this sub is reacting/having discourse over this.

I came here cause I was curious what the general thought was here, because all of the louder outlets in my life are foaming at the mouth over this one.

Thank you for not adding the to dumpster fire.

20

u/ElioArryn 14d ago

Thanks for coming

4

u/Infinite_Play650 Conservative 13d ago

Why are you thanking me, I do it everyday? You should see the state of my socks

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/kiecolt_67 14d ago

Glad you are here for the same reason I am, honestly.

I like how you termed it the "louder" outlets. Honestly, I tend to shy away from outlets that scream at me. In my life, I believe if you have to yell at me to get your point across, it probably isn't all that strong a point.

→ More replies
→ More replies

116

u/Stoli1387 14d ago

One of the few situations in the last few years that all of the country is united on...that these 3 POS should rot....can't seem to agree on anything else haha

45

u/cheeseschezwan 14d ago

are you sure? Candace Owens disagrees.

107

u/rith15 14d ago

Candace Owens is insanely stupid, she doesn’t even have her own values anymore, just opposite whatever the left believes

36

u/hanton44 14d ago

She’s my least favorite “conservative” talk host. Apparently she only started seeing Republican values in high school when she was bullied by the democrat mayor’s son. I tried reading Blackout but none of it really made any sense (given I was reading the google books preview because I refuse to give her money…) She just preaches whatever the left hates, gets her bag and leaves

→ More replies

32

u/stargunner Conservative 14d ago

then we can all agree candace owens is wrong

13

u/HenryGrosmont 14d ago

I think it's fair to point out the difference between people in general and the likes of Owens and the rest of the "I'm here for the money" group.

3

u/hanton44 14d ago

You see it in politics all the time. Look at Kyrsten Sinema

→ More replies
→ More replies

240

u/S1RSCR0TUS Constitutional Conservative 14d ago

Yep not enough evidence to justify a citizen’s arrest. Disagree with the law on citizen’s arrest anyway and I’m glad they got rid of it.

114

u/JeffTrav 14d ago

Yes. “Citizens arrest” is way too cloudy and just asking for trouble. It’s almost like no-knock warrants. I see the purpose, but if someone kicks down my door without identifying themselves, I’m lighting it up.

39

u/erbush1988 14d ago edited 14d ago

Right?! The "no knock" / no warning means I'm not just going to ask what's up. If you bust into my home, I'm going to assume that you plan on doing other "illegal" things, including causing harm to myself or my family.

5

u/EmilySpelledFunny 14d ago

Completely! No knocks are one of those things that need to be an absolute last resort and should be so rare it becomes obscure. The average length of time it takes a federal magistrate to review a search warrant is 2 minutes and 48 seconds, some are reviewed in under a minute. And warrants reviewed by state judges and magistrates are scrutinized even less. It’s no wonder that the amount of no knocks perpetrated on completely innocent people is as high as it is.

9

u/Slooper1140 14d ago

Yeah, no knocks need to be reserved for El Chapo and shit like that. Didn’t they no knock that Colorado mom?

6

u/EmilySpelledFunny 14d ago

I’m not sure, the last one I remember reading about was a poor kid that looked like Brian Laundrie and the police busted into his hotel room.

→ More replies

9

u/S1RSCR0TUS Constitutional Conservative 14d ago

It’s basically just vigilantism. You see something wrong, call the cops. Don’t try to detain someone in the middle of a public street

→ More replies
→ More replies

23

u/lotus_bubo Classical Liberal 14d ago

As much as I support people being independent and solving problems themselves, leave the arresting to the police. Regular people don't have qualified immunity. Collect evidence, take it to the police, and let the professionals handle it.

12

u/Cinnadillo Conservative 14d ago

Here is the thing though. A lot of things can qualify as a citizens arrest without being said as much... such as say locking a burglar in a closet.

So I think citizen arrest laws still help the public in such scenarios where you can or must pin a felon down in place. People shouldn't use the laws as a means to get proactive unless they're damn sure on the law. Don't get into law enforcement actions if you don't actually know the law and willing to go to court over the law.

7

u/csdspartans7 14d ago

I think the thing we really want to eliminate here though is you don’t want to have people be able to legally abduct you with a gun.

→ More replies

10

u/yike92 14d ago

Really interesting. I live in Canada and our citizen arrest powers are way more then it appears they are in many states if not the entire US. We can detain if we see a crime take place, if we see someone who we know committed a crime previously and there’s not time for police to come. And we can help anyone that we believe has grounds to arrest someone. Eg. We can help police or a neighbour who we believe has grounds to arrest. So in this case the neighbour would get off with Canadian laws. Providing his version of events is true

11

u/ScumbagGina Enlightenment Conservative 14d ago

It many states, the standards are similar to what you’re describing. This issue here is that these men had no knowledge of Arbury actually committing a crime, and thus had no grounds to attempt a citizens arrest. Iirc, there was simply a video of him walking through the frame of an under-construction house that they said made them suspicious that he was a burglar. But no evidence to support that suspicion, much less knowledge of a crime.

8

u/thememans11 14d ago

Actually, they even admitted they didn't even know he was in the under construction house at all that day. That was information they learned after the fact, and tried to justify their actions through it.

Basically, they had even less reason to detain Arbery than a lot of people think. As in, there was no reason at all aside from them seeing him running. That was literally their only grounds for suspecting him.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

134

u/LiterOfColah 14d ago

Definitely the right call. Good job jury.

→ More replies

94

u/fifesydney 14d ago

One thing that was so disappointing about this case was that it took the GBI and DOJ to hold them accountable. Two local prosecutors had to recuse themselves because of misconduct. If this case got no media attention they’d still be on the street. Really shines a light on how justice is largely dependent on local politics. In some of these rural communities the local DA is essentially a dictator.

11

u/whopops 14d ago

Yea the justice system in small towns can very easily become corrupt or extremely biased.

→ More replies

54

u/TheSecond48 Conservative 14d ago Bravo Grande!

Good. The just verdict. Those assholes shouldn't have pursued Arbery.

Part of being a responsible gun owner is remembering that we have a responsibility to avoid confrontation and deescalate a situation, not rush in and try to detain suspects like we've been deputized as Junior Cops. A death resulted from their stupidity, and they belong in prison. Good riddance.

7

u/FabrizioSantoz 14d ago

Fucking finally found it. Actual gun responsibility ethos.

It's crazy this isn't the top comment.

As a 2a supporter and conceal carry, I am not a cop, I am not a hero, and I'm never going to detain anyone with my gun.

If I have to draw my gun, it's to save a life, by taking a life. Last resort, not deescalate. That's how you get killed by cops, or by someone else in a confusing and stressful situation.

→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/ExcellentEffort1752 14d ago

No big surprise here, the facts of the case spoke for themselves. The only mystery here is how the murderers thought that they had a hope in hell of winning this case once all the facts were laid bare. Correct verdict, justice done.

6

u/MithrilYakuza 14d ago

I mean, they filmed themselves and then released the video to show they "did nothing wrong".

They were also almost right, it took the story going viral to get justice.

145

u/blackburi50 14d ago

Rittenhouse verdict is correct and the Aubrey verdict is also correct.

44

u/Dull-Conversation566 14d ago

Almost Iike the jury system works?

It’s amazing all these high powered prosecutors and defense lawyers and judges, but the decision comes down to the guy or gal that you stand next to in a store or go to church with.

It’s not 100% but it’s better than most.

45

u/Odin_Christ_ 14d ago

It could work a lot better. The fact of the matter is the DA was perfectly willing to let this one go and not do anything about it. It wasn't until the whole nation make a giant, angry stink that someone got off their dead ass and did anything about it. In our heterogeneous society, we must have a justice system that works as well for Ahmaud Arbery as it does for Kyle Rittenhouse.

8

u/misterO5 14d ago

Well said.

→ More replies
→ More replies

13

u/pabmendez 14d ago

How do you feel about the long delay of about 3 months until they were finally charged?

If the video was not leaked and gone viral, they likely would never been charged?

35

u/ArchiCEC 14d ago

Good. Can’t really claim self-defense when you follow the guy around the block screaming “Stop or I’m gonna blow your head off!”

My initial reaction to the footage of Arbery running around the car then lunging for the gun was self-defense…. then I learned what happened before that. It’s even more shocking that the defendants willingly released the footage thinking it would help their case.

13

u/WeaponofChoice48 14d ago

Agreed, that's why George Zimmerman should be in prison.

→ More replies

30

u/t_j_c_242 14d ago

No complaints here. They were guilty as hell.

108

u/Mr_Nuttutty 14d ago

Justice served, whether or not citizen arrest is legal, doing so with guns out and chasing the individual down with a truck is just asking for trouble. Even if Ahmaud was a scumbag that's not how anyone should attempt to take the law into their own hands.

36

u/STIGANDR8 Conservative 14d ago

They could have just followed him while calling the cops.

51

u/shadowofahelicopter 14d ago

They shouldn’t have even done that. That’s still creating a situation for a conflict to arise / escalate unnecessarily based on complete suspicion. You’re describing exactly what George Zimmerman was told not to do. And while he was innocent for ultimately defending himself, it still wouldn’t have happened if he had just listened to the dispatcher and not followed him at all.

24

u/Sig00 14d ago

It's the same situation. You're saying if ahmaud had ended up getting the upper hand then they had killed him these guys would be in the clear for self defense. This case was murder, Zimmerman was murder too.

→ More replies

54

u/rahrahgogo 14d ago

Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he wanted to kill him, this is born out by his actions nowadays by tweeting his dead body, auctioning off his gun, etc. I still believe the law that allowed him to stalk a kid through the streets armed then cry “self defense” should be changed.

32

u/OverlordMastema 14d ago

I firmly believe Zimmerman was absolutely out to start something, even if it wasn't strictly to kill. Since the killing of Trayvon, he has been arrested for domestic violence three different times, all with charges completely dropped. Two of those three times also included, unsurprisingly, holding the victim at gunpoint, once to his girlfriend, and once to his ex-wife's father.

Even if people want to argue he was innocent in the killing, he is absolutely a completely garbage human being that should still be in prison for the multitude of charges he has somehow gotten dropped every single time.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

24

u/Vertisce Conservative Leaning Libertarian 14d ago

Don't chase people down and then shoot them. Seems like a life lesson anybody with common sense wouldn't need to learn first hand.

→ More replies

78

u/Prudent_Nectarine_25 14d ago

I agree with the verdict but still scratching my head - if you are going to do dumb stuff don’t record it!

19

u/Hi_This_Is_God_777 14d ago

Not only that, they themselves released the footage.

If they never did that, they probably would never be in this situation.

It would just be their word against Arbery's.

→ More replies
→ More replies

12

u/Sarchasm-Spelunker 2A Small Government 14d ago

Big shocker right there. Who would have guessed that running someone down and shooting them would lead to a murder conviction?

16

u/Lewisportage 14d ago

It very nearly did not. The extremely corrupt DA covered up the crime because she was friends with the murderers. They weren’t charged until we all saw the video.

62

u/cledus1667 14d ago

I get tired of stupid people on our own side belting out slogans and supporting vigilante justice even though it's just mob justice with a different name. I hate abuse of power by the justice system but having roving bands of people dispensing what they think is justice based on hearsay is wrong. I wish some of our own people would cut the sloganeering bullshit and be a little intellectually honest.

25

u/ScumbagGina Enlightenment Conservative 14d ago

Yeah, the intelligent and nuanced conservatives are being drowned out more and more by the ideologues and the self-unaware. It’s sad that they paint a valid target on our backs come election time.

5

u/ronin4052 14d ago

It's what the media does, conservative media highlights the far left and tries to paint them as the actual representation of the left and liberal media does the exact same with the far right. This country is much more united then what the media likes to portray.

→ More replies
→ More replies

42

u/BigDickKenJennings 14d ago

This is the case I was surprised wasn't a bigger deal. There was a much better argument to be made for racism or racial bias with this one (not that I believe the aggressors were acting primarily bc of the victim's race). Instead we had people rattling sabers over Rittenhouse bc that case was more valuable politically than an actual case about a black life.

5

u/TheNewGuyGames 14d ago

Honestly? Same. I'm no better since I completely forget about these cases until they start popping up in the news toward the end of their trials though.

Obviously I did not closely follow the case, but it seemed so cookie cutter simple from the first time I heard about it. I thought for sure this one would be a massive deal. Instead the Rittenhouse case was the focus across all political groups. I don't understand the politics behind that case.

Dumb kid gets into a bad situation and several people make dumb mistakes. Versus. Three grown men (was one younger? I don't remember.) see a random black man jogging down the street and get ready to go on a hunt based on a, seemingly racially motivated, assumption.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/Disboot 14d ago

Do the crime, do the time

67

u/LTtheBasedGod Gen Z Conservative 14d ago

2 high profile cases in the past week have ended in the way I personally think they should’ve. Sounds like the justice system works.

56

u/amayagab 14d ago

In these two cases yes, but in a lot of other cases, no. I don't think these two cases are a good reflection of the justice system as a whole.

I just heard of a judge who spared a violent rapist prison time because he "prayed" on it.

Some times the system works, some time it doesn't

11

u/asxnullified 14d ago

Oh my god, that guy. Imagine raping teenagers and getting probation.

6

u/amayagab 14d ago

It happens more often than you might think.

15

u/MonsterSmoocher 14d ago

The justice system works *after feeling pressure from media and people outside of the justice system. Don't forget that while the crime went without any proper investigation for months, given that their local DA worked with police to actively cover up this entire murder (and is now being indicted by a grand jury for obstruction). If not for the defense attorney apparently deciding to release the footage of the crime, and not gaining the mass amount of attention it had, the justice system would have once again failed the people it was meant to help.

It took 74 days after this crime for the offenders to be arrested and questioned. It's not a mystery why 72 of those days were before the footage was released, and why it took only 2 days for them to be brought in once the public was allowed to see what happened beyond the oppression of local justice systems.

→ More replies

38

u/AnywayCOYSpurs 14d ago

Probably the easiest murder trial of this prosecutor's career.

Article says they're not facing the death penalty despite Georgia having capital punishment....why didn't they push for that?

66

u/freedomboogers89 14d ago

Jurors may not feel comfortable sentencing people to death. Easier to remove that option from the table and jurors are more comfortable slam dunking their ass into prison for life.

7

u/AnywayCOYSpurs 14d ago

Is Georgia one of those states where the jury has to recommend it?

11

u/freedomboogers89 14d ago

Just knowing that there is a chance of the death penalty could cause some jurors to hesitate. By telling them ahead of time that they will not seek the death penalty if guilty it is more likely to get jurors to give a fully honest verdict without reservations.

2

u/rith15 14d ago

Death penalty is one of those things that the left and the right don’t like these days. Pro-life includes anti-death penalty as well as anti-abortion

→ More replies

9

u/boredcentsless 14d ago

Really risky going for death penalty. You need a slam dunk, iron class case. Casey Anthony walked because they went for death penalty. If they settled for life, she would have been convicted

9

u/EmilySpelledFunny 14d ago edited 14d ago

The defense attorney made it even easier. As a representative of the accused he was not likable in the least. If he had been my attorney I would have fired him before even going to trial. He said in an interview in which he dismissed his client as stupid because he’s only a mechanic with a high school diploma. But then again maybe he is dumb for not taking offense to the comment…

→ More replies

3

u/brogrammer1992 14d ago

It was actually from a technical perspective very hard because of the reasonable belief standard in citizens arrest.

Prosecutor made a good case that they made it up After/ it wasn’t a reasonable belief.

→ More replies

49

u/bradsander 14d ago

Good. Let them rot in prison

24

u/VirginWizard69 Tiltowait, Baby! 14d ago

I understand the first two, but the third guy with no gun and a camera?

53

u/iced_oj 14d ago

He chased and blocked Arbery with his truck on top of recording everything, he for sure contributed to the murder.

→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/BeNice_777 14d ago

This was a bad one, hopefully justice has been done.

3

u/Viking141 14d ago

Obviously the right verdict.

3

u/connordunleavy 14d ago

Glad they got it right. Absolutely no case for self defense

3

u/VersionAgile8450 14d ago

I am a super conservative from the South and I agree this was definitely straight up murder.

24

u/philistineslayer 14d ago

Good. That was a completely unjustified killing.

8

u/rbaut1836 14d ago

I watched the video of that happening. Fuck those dudes. Let them rot.

I work a late shift from home and go for jogs at night and to imagine someone would chase me down for going for a jog because they assumed I did something wrong and am out running at night....I feel sorry for that kid

19

u/GrizzlyOne95 14d ago

That is a good thing.

11

u/TheHeadofSyrup 14d ago

Not a conservative but this is cut and dry and I feel the same way about Rittenhouse.

Edit: to clarify, Rittenhouse was clearly self defense and the verdict reached I have zero issues with.

15

u/JTM0990 14d ago

I didn't watch the case. Can someone in the know explain how the third guy is guilty? Seems like he got lumped in by association.

51

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

9

u/JTM0990 14d ago

Yes, that helps a lot, thank you.

→ More replies

25

u/disphugginflip 14d ago

3rd guy was in the truck “herding” Arbery to the McMichaels.

9

u/Rdbjiy53wsvjo7 14d ago

Correct, which the prosecutor interpreted (not sure if that's the right word) as assault with a vehicle. In her closing arguments she was counting the number of times he admitted to it when he was interviewed by the police.

→ More replies

6

u/JTM0990 14d ago

That helps, thank you

→ More replies

12

u/KoleDS 14d ago

This and Rittenhouse are undeniably both correct verdicts

21

u/BlueshirtsCloud 14d ago

Justice served.

4

u/BetterGravethanSlave 14d ago

The lesson from Kyle and this trial: don't take law in your own hands. If suspicions are high, call the police and get out of the way.