r/news 12d ago

Special German police unit will be disbanded after investigators found right-wing extremist messages shared by some of its members

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-frankfurt-police-unit-to-be-disbanded-over-far-right-chats/a-57840014
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u/Loki-L 12d ago

They don't mention it in the article, but the only reason why anyone even found out about these guys posting Nazis stuff in their private chats, was because one of them was investigated for child porn and they looked through all his computer stuff and found the Nazi chats.

They are also going after the members of the group who were not actively involved in the Nazi stuff but knew and kept silent when they should have said something.

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u/Badloss 12d ago

They are also going after the members of the group who were not actively involved in the Nazi stuff but knew and kept silent when they should have said something.

I'm glad somebody gets it. The US will never fix our police problem until the "good apples" get held accountable for shielding the bad ones

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u/jdith123 12d ago

Agreed. It goes even farther. In the US, “good apples” lose their jobs because they do tell on fellow officers instead of because they keep silent.

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u/TheDoktorIsIn 12d ago

Nobody believed me so I started reading off cases where this happened and they said "see, all these good apples are calling out the bad ones!"

Each case started with 'Former (city) police officer...'

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u/AndaliteBandits 12d ago

The only cops the union won’t fight for are the ones who were fired for calling out the bad ones.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Trust me if you’re a good cop, you don’t wanna stay on the force after blowing the whistle... that would be a bad time.

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u/stoned-derelict 12d ago

You'll get Serpico'd

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Exactly that, literally based on a true story, apparently.

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u/ItsATerribleLife 12d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico

"The problem is that the atmosphere does not yet exist, in which an honest police officer can act ... without fear of ridicule or reprisal from fellow officers"

50 years later and nothing has changed.

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u/MasterGrok 12d ago

Back then there were no phone cameras, internet, etc. I think it was almost certainly even worse back then, we just don’t know about it. I get that we have a million miles to go, but I think people underestimate just how fucked up society was for the powerless for the vast majority of human history.

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u/YourFavWardBitch 12d ago

Watch the George Floyd video. That cop slowly murdered a man and all the other cops, including the ones who told him to stop, stood by and let it happen. No one was willing to cross that "thin blue line", even to stop a murder.

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u/HalfSourPickle 12d ago

To me this implies that there are more bad apples apples good ones...

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u/UrbanGhost114 12d ago

My roommates uncle was a cop in the 60's committed "suicide by cop" while he was in the middle of blowing the whistle on bad cops, And by suicide by cop, I mean they took him out in the field, executed him and then told everyone that he was attacking them.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Not even kind of surprised. That’s fucked tho.

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u/t00lecaster 12d ago

This is why it is so important to teach children that they must never trust any police officer for any reason, unless they’re rich.

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u/amibeingadick420 12d ago

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u/Castun 12d ago

Yeah, I think this was the subject of a podcast episode from a few years back.

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u/xseannnn 12d ago

Or you go out blasting like Christopher Dorner.

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u/whiskeyboundcowboy 12d ago

I saw the title “ special German police unit “ and thought oh no this is not good. Especially considering if they hadn’t been found out.

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u/plsgiveusername123 12d ago

Germany understands how fast the rot of fascism can spread and aren't afraid to cut it out.

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u/whiskeyboundcowboy 12d ago

Wish they would do that in America

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u/Codeshark 12d ago

They should make the good cops automatically promoted to chief or another high position. Incentivize weeding out corruption.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Nice in theory, I agree, but many don’t want to be higher than they are... although if they’re willing to blow the whistle, they’re likely willing to take on this responsibility... hmmm.

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u/brazzledazzle 12d ago

if they’re willing to blow the whistle, they’re likely willing to take on this responsibility... hmmm.

Whistle blowing requires someone with a lot of upstanding character and resolve. They are inherently selfless. It almost never results in a happy ending for them. At best they can work in their industry again within 5 years. Unless they’re blowing it for that fat SEC award cash money. Then they’re just smart.

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u/Delta-9- 12d ago

Whistle blowing requires someone with a lot of upstanding character and resolve. They are inherently selfless.

Well, maybe not always. Whistle-blowing can be done for selfish or office-political reasons, too. Just 'cause someone calls out the shitheads doesn't necessarily mean they're not a shithead themselves.

That said, I'm inclined to believe that usually whistle blowers do so because it's the right thing to do. Probably 9 in 10, maybe a little higher, but who knows.

Edit: it's generally less embarrassing to read to the end of a comment before replying. I just saw your last sentence 🙃

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u/Codeshark 12d ago

Yeah, it isn't necessarily ideal and chief might be too high but I think it is a better solution to reward them with a higher position than to have them leave due to being harassed by the bad cops.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

I would want to leave. Fucking witness protection, please. Lol

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u/W9CR 12d ago

Chief/Senior Management is/are (a) political position. These positions must do what the mayor wants and lie when needed to get them reelected. This is not a position for honest men.

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u/deviant324 12d ago

That’d require the corruption to not also be an issue higher up

It’s in the interest of the guys who set this stuff up not to have this happen

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u/Sapiendoggo 12d ago

Typically corruption is a top down sickness, these people wouldn't be fired if it wasn't.

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u/Codeshark 12d ago

If you're chief, you're at the highest position, right?

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u/Keinichn 12d ago

And this is also how you can get false accusations and witch hunts.

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u/Codeshark 12d ago

We wouldn't just take them at their word. We can investigate the allegations.

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u/ZionsShare 12d ago edited 12d ago

Why don’t the good cops just band together? Are there so few of them they have to cower?

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u/LawTeaDough 12d ago

Happened to my brother. Ended up needing to move his family out of the state because of death threats from fellow LEOs. All he did was catch them red handed working with cartels and even the internal affairs wouldn't offer him protection.

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u/dkwangchuck 12d ago

Hey, that’s not true. The union also refuses to stand up for women police officers who get sexually harassed by their colleagues. Oh wait, that’s redundant. I mean the union also doesn’t stand up for women police officers.

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u/fistofwrath 12d ago

You gotta be a straight white male cop to get full union benefits.

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u/SprinklesFancy5074 12d ago

When the BLM riots were at their peak, several police officers got immediately fired for posting anything remotely BLM-supporting.

Meanwhile, for all the cops who post Nazi shit ... *crickets*

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u/GrantUsEyes92 12d ago

It’s Dorner time!

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u/atetuna 12d ago

Time for police to go on a rampage shooting up pickups of all makes, models and colors, with passengers of any gender, race, age or quantity again! As long as one part of a multi part description is a match, it's good enough to open fire.

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u/Throwawaymynodz 12d ago

God that was such a shit a show haha.

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u/Dahhhkness 12d ago

You know the old saying, "One good apple is an impossible standard for the rest of the bunch."

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Lol I used to sarcastically tell my coworkers who were better than me “slow your roll! I suck.” They knew I was kidding tho.

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u/brazzledazzle 12d ago

Don’t worry. You’re playing a pivotal role in the lightning rod strategy: Always have a coworker that stands out from the team in terms of productivity or quality. Slow, bad at their job, quality consistency–as long as it makes the boss do the silent pursed lips semi frown. Also preferably enough to constantly annoy management but not enough that they want to deal with the hassle of firing them. Everyone looks awesome with the lightning rod around because they’re attracting all of the management lightning strikes and the bar is lowered for everyone else.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Yeah and I got promoted!

But if what you’re saying actually is true, then I’ve done a great job at that. My bosses actually respected me cuz I was always doing quality work, just not quickly. And often my quality was better than others. But I’ve deffo worked with people who were hard working, strong-willed, and highly motivated who outshined me in every regard EXCEPT attitude.

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u/brazzledazzle 12d ago

Peter principle!

I’m just kidding. You probably deserved it. Congrats.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

I did but only cuz the specific issue we had at that location was mostly customer-service, and I’m great at that. My boss knew I’d check the catering email, and make sure when there’s a problem (anywhere, be it between customers, coworkers or both) that it gets handled well.

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u/sakura1083 12d ago

Great analogy and beautifully put. I once got the benefit of being compared to a “lightning rod” that was so bad that my results were hailed as a masterpiece as a result. Now I have a name for it. Thank you!

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u/elephantphallus 12d ago

Sadly, it's because that environment is no longer safe or equitable for them. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about whistleblowers being placed under federal protection.

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u/dmepic 12d ago

The feds don't care enough to put them under federal protection.

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u/Sapiendoggo 12d ago

Here's a hint for you, the FBI the same people who as far as we know just stopped assassinating civil rights leaders and making up 20% of the Klan on official assignment, and the rest of the federal law enforcement agencies some of which routinely arm drug cartels and are responsible for burning alive dozens of American women and children just this month are required to wear body cameras in non undercover activities. So yea big doubt on that protection

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u/Shandrahyl 12d ago

Oh that happens in germany too. Police beat up a gay man a few years back during a pride Parade. They took him into custody, took a blood sample illegally (they need a judge approval for this) and threw back out in the night just in his underwear. They gave him his other clothing which tourned out to be wet for some reason no1 could explain.

The DA then even started to investigate against that dude for "resiting Arrest". Court found hes not guilty. DA then made an appeal. Higher court found hes not guilty DA made another appeal. Even higher court did not find him guilty, apologized to the Man and said DA should rather invest the police offiercers involved. Same DA did but instantly closed the case cause the case had no "public interest". So no charges.

You might think thats the worst but wait a Minute.

Among the said policeofficers Was a young female trainee. She had excellent grades all over. But she didnt wanted to cover for her nice homophobics colleagues and so it happend that she couldnt pass the last Tests of her last Training. Departement thought she was not qualified.

Case still not investigates further so far.

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

No more apples investigating apples. We need a federal system that licenses all officers to federal standards, requires full psych examinations and squeaky clean records, and at least two years of secondary education required. Like nations who DON'T have a serious police problem because THEY have standards.

We get doorknobs who couldn't be soldiers because the army wouldn't touch them.

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u/WestFast 12d ago

We need a federal database of cops who are fired for misconduct/abuse and a federal law saying they can’t wear a badge again. And prison time for any police chief who cheats.

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

AND ban them from owning firearms for life.

A disgraced cop should NOT own weapons.

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u/jdith123 12d ago

This is exactly what we need. Not all cops start out bad. But the way the system is set up now, in many places, you can’t stay a cop without becoming bad.

My town has a horrible record of police violence. Our city is going broke paying out lawsuits. We can’t get insurance anymore. The lists when we “say their names” are long and getting longer.

Over and over again we hire cops who have a record of violence from other cities. This must stop!

I’m a school teacher. I have to maintain a teaching credential. I have to take continuing education and if I get fired for cause, I can lose my credential. Cops should have a similar system.

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

Yep. It's like a doctor or a teacher: It's a profession of duty and responsibility.

The fact that Americans sort of meh and laugh at it is just disgusting. We should demand that the system be changed from the top down, not just hope that it sort of eeeh fixes itself.

That's like expecting the mob to clean up its own act. You don't go against the mob when you're in it.

A doctor has a license number. A police officer should have a license number. I should be able to look them up. I should be able to see their entire service history. I should be able to know exactly who this person is who has a gun and the power of death or freedom over me.

We don't even expect them to get the right house number when they go in guns blazing, FFS. How damned low are the standards we've been forced to accept? If they get any lower, we'll cheer when they don't shoot themselves in the foot because they're wearing black shoes.

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u/Additional_Essay 12d ago

Hairstylists and Nurses Aides etc etc have a license that can have disciplinary actions applied to it by a professional board. Its not that hard. Forget being a doctor, lawyer, nurse or whatever. It's an easy answer.

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

Which is even more embarrassing. You have to meet license standards to wash hair, but not carry a gun and interpret law.

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u/Shufflebuzz 12d ago

No more apples investigating apples.

Massachusetts is working on establishing an oversight board for police.

It's proposed to be at least half the members as current or former cops or appointed by the police union.

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u/Claymore357 12d ago

That’s unacceptable. If the police union had even one member in there it’ll be uselessly corrupt before it even starts

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u/FirstPlebian 12d ago

I think rather than spending a fortune on educating police not to break the law, simply enforcing the rules equally against them when they break them would improve things significantly. They get away with near everything and the worst ones end up in charge.

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u/Megneous 12d ago

In the US, “good apples” lose their jobs because they do tell on fellow officers

Not only lose their jobs. A lot of them end up dead, or like Adrian Schoolcraft. He was collecting evidence about his corrupt department and like half the department showed up at his house at night, lied to his landlord to gain entry, kidnapped him, involuntarily committed him to a mental hospital, and forced the mental hospital nurses to restrain him and not let him contact anyone. Literal fucking brown shirts kidnapping shit, Nazi Germany style.

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u/Sawses 12d ago

It seems to me that the trouble is the system rather than the people who keep quiet. They keep quiet not because they want to, but because they'll be punished if they don't.

First step is to put safeguards in place to protect whistleblowers. Do that, and we'll see a lot of those people stop being silent. Most people, cops included, don't like seeing innocent people being hurt. Most people also don't want to be hurt. It takes exceptional character to be willing to face punishment for doing the right thing.

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u/rooftopfilth 12d ago

I don't know how to verbalize this, but I think you assume that there are more cops who even realize that their buddies are doing fucked up shit than there are. I think most cops (most people) see their friends doing fucked up shit and rather than think the complex thought, "I like the person but their actions aren't cool" they'd rather say "aw, that's just Frank, he wouldn't actually hurt anyone, he doesn't mean anything by it." They're taught that Bad People and Criminals look scary and are evil all the time, not that they might look like their buddies and be really funny at the office party.

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u/the_gilded_dan_man 12d ago

Removing the whistleblower from the environment they were in is a safeguard. Their life would become hell.

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u/Sawses 12d ago

That only works if they can get a job elsewhere or otherwise retain their livelihood.

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u/bohanmyl 12d ago edited 12d ago

The new Saw movie, Spiral, touches on the very topic.

Spoilers for Spiral .

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The main character is a cop (Chris Rock) whose partner shot someone in their doorway for agreeing to testify against a dirty cop and proceeds to plant a gun on him and act like the guy was going to shoot him. Chris' character then ends up turning him in and gets iced out by the rest of the precinct. He goes to chase an armed criminal later and calls for backup 3 times in 8 mins or something like that and even though cops were nearby nobody answered, shots were fired, and he got the perp but was shot back ! <

Its sad how shit like that can actually happen in real life because backing "the blue" is more important than being a good cop.

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u/FirstPlebian 12d ago

Lose their jobs, sometimes lose their lives, funny how officers that tell on other officers commit suicide so much, they must just be so torn up with guilt at having done the right thing.

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u/Roofdragon 12d ago

In cases like this it's important Reddit understands the US isn't the rest of the world.

That happens in England. It happens in Australia. It happens in Japan. It's not a USA USA thing. God.

I can understand what people mean now when they talk about people like this. No matter where, everything gets referred back to the USA which is not at the forefront of many important things.

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u/jdith123 12d ago

I understand that. I’m in the US, commenting on a story about something that happened in Germany.

I mentioned US specifically because if I hadn’t, my comment could have been taken to apply to the whole world. I suppose I could have said, “in my country” or something like that.

Of course I also understand that police violence is a problem in other countries than the US. But I don’t want to speak for them

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u/ThrowMeAwayAccount08 12d ago

Sometimes even worse. Adrian Schoolcraft was abducted.

If you have time, This American Life did a piece on him and his recordings. It’s very scary.

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u/swinging-in-the-rain 12d ago

I hate this timeline, can I opt out?

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u/os10 12d ago

i'm ready to cross the streams and accept my total protonic inversion.

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u/thecronosone 12d ago

That means there's no good apples in the police anymore, all of them are bad apples

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

I had to deal with a shit union. That's the real problem. Internal ass covering leads to assholes in charge.

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u/turbotator0065 12d ago

A counter to that though is if they shield it for months and then have a change of heart doesn’t save them from losing their job too.

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u/space-throwaway 12d ago

I'm glad somebody gets it.

Hey, just a heads up: The politician responsible for disbanding this unit (Beuth) doesn't do this because he's such a good person or thinks that Nazis are bad, but because the press knew, the crime was undeniable and he was forced to do something.

There has been a fascist underground terrorist organisation (NSU) which killed several people in the last decades. An agent (Andreas Temme) of the german bureau for protection of the constitution (German secret agency of the interior, basically) was literally in the same room when one of those murders happened but "he didn't hear the shot". During another murder, his cellphone was active in the same region. During yet another murder, his car was at the scene. When a German conservative politician was killed by a Nazi because he advocated for refugees rights, it turned out that same Agent had been tasked with interacting with this Nazi killer. This agents nickname in his village was "little Adolf", by the way.

Beuth and his pal, Hesse prime minister Bouffier, sent this agent to work at a cushy job at the government bureau in Kassel.

Beuth didn't disband this unit because he hates Nazis in the police or because "he gets it", but because they got caught.

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u/EventuallyABot 12d ago

So much this. Conservatives denied the problem since forever. Even now they don't want to talk about it but silently get rid of them in the police so the media gets something to write but they will never admit any wrongdoing. They just want to avoid a strong backlash.

Our famous former president of said intelligence agency is an actual right hardliner on his mission to strengthen the new extreme right by denying any problem from that side while spouting altright dogwhistles and is on his way into our parlament for the so called "moderate" conservative party.

Reactionaries are called that way because they don't care. They just do stuff if it could hurt them.

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u/zomboy1111 12d ago

Pretty brilliant. That totally incentives things differently.

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u/Driekan 12d ago

People seem not to realize that the full saying goes that a bad apple spoils the bunch. Now that the bunch is actively defending the bad apples, it's thoroughly obvious that the bunch is, indeed, spoiled.

Throw it out.

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u/GuitarCFD 12d ago

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject."

We've all heard it shortened, "The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good men to sit and do nothing."

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u/MrDeckard 12d ago

There are no "good apples." That's what happens when rotten apples spoil the bunch.

The only good apple is one who stopped being an apple and started being a goddamned human being again.

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u/ChickenOatmeal 12d ago

Unfortunately police unions basically guarantee that will never happen. The way the union demonstrates it's devotion to members is by protecting the absolute worst of them vehemently. The logic goes that if they can be counted on to protect someone who's committed blatant murder of an unarmed person, for example, they can definitely be counted upon to defend members in comparatively minor instances. Police should absolutely not be allowed to unionize under any circumstances, and that's the only profession I believe that about.

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u/dkwangchuck 12d ago

Police unions suck shit and are actively harmful to democracy, but that’s not the only problem. Hell, it is t even the main problem. The main problem is that we, the public, despise the idea of police accountability. We might make nice noises about weeding out bad apples, but deep down, the overwhelming majority of the public is totally cool with abusive cops. We believe that abusive psychopaths with badges are what’s needed to protect us from “the bad guys”. Consider that insane backlash against the Defund the Police movement - all city departments (except policing) face budget cuts at some point in time. A reduction in budget is entirely normal - it happens to everyone else all the time. And many PDs have clearly shown that there is a need to reassess how things are prioritized and how resources should be allocated. But that’s not the response we see to those three words. It’s all insane fearmongering craziness that thinks a dollar less of police budget will result in The Purge.

People suck. We are happy if the cops are monsters because they are our monsters (note that “our” means not a minority, LGBT, homeless, dealing with mental health or substance abuse issues, or openly “liberal”). That’s the problem. Even if there were no police union, local governments will still bend over backwards to protect bad cops and the voters will reward them for it.

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u/Teeklin 12d ago

The police union has no bearing at all on anything and should be protecting all members as best they can.

In a functional justice system a union rep and union lawyers don't suddenly end a criminal investigation or prevent punishment however.

It's not that police unions exist, it's that our justice system is broken.

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u/randoredirect 12d ago

What is it with nazis and child porn? Is there something that causes the significant overlap?

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u/scaffe 12d ago

Lack of empathy and a thirst for feeling powerful over others, yet being too mediocre to do so on merit.

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u/Dr_nobby 12d ago

Most of them are Incels. It would be interesting to see the link between underage attraction with extemist views in a medical paper

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u/RedGrobo 12d ago

They don't mention it in the article, but the only reason why anyone even found out about these guys posting Nazis stuff in their private chats, was because one of them was investigated for child porn and they looked through all his computer stuff and found the Nazi chats.

They are also going after the members of the group who were not actively involved in the Nazi stuff but knew and kept silent when they should have said something.

Wonder what they know that other places dont?

Must be nothing....

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u/wake_as_water 12d ago

Not surprising it didn't get mentioned when you see the slap on the wrist Christophe Metzelder just got for being caught with child porn. Absolute creep.

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u/whoami_whereami 12d ago

You can thank the Bild-Zeitung for that. He got a lowered sentence specifically because of the prejudging manner in which they had reported about the case before the conviction (he also got a restraining order against Bild because as usual for them they made numerous false factual claims about the case).

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u/IAmTheJudasTree 12d ago

If you lurk around extreme right-wing forums for awhile you learn very quickly that all of their obsession with constantly talking about "pedophile rings" is projection. They share more child porn among each other than just about anywhere else.

Without going into detail, I have a connection in law enforcement who told me chatter in child porn forums often looks weirdly like chatter in far right political forums. Lots of talk of democrats being evil and obsessive love for Trump.

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u/RimShimp 12d ago

I mean the guy who started QAnon literally got his start running boards that traded CP. Are we at all surprised their crusade against it is actually just a shield for themselves?

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u/DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI 12d ago

They think people who hurt kids are bad, but what they're doing isn't hurting kids. Like every pedophile thinks like this

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u/merryman1 12d ago

What is it with these far right twats always turning out to be pedophiles as well?

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u/third-time-charmed 12d ago

Power and control over others.

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u/condods 12d ago

Ding ding ding. Same reason they manipulate and control women, disabled people, other ethnicities, and just about anyone else they perceive as weak.

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u/this_sort_of_thing 12d ago

Which is why QAnon was just pure projection. Bunch of angry white people claiming that anyone who isn’t a white far right lunatic is part of a child murdering molestation cult and somehow Trump, worst of them all, is the saviour.

Fucking idiots. Anybody who didn’t immediately see it for what it is is also a fucking idiot.

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u/KryptikMitch 12d ago

Silence is compliance.

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u/Ringo_A 12d ago

What is doesnt mention in the article that the 3 that were not part of the 17 that were activly spreading it, were their supervisors. That's one of the main reasons why the whole unit is getting disbanded, because they want to reshape the entire middle management culture, since the supervisors apperently couldn't be trusted to be not silently compliant.

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u/NineteenSkylines 12d ago

At least Germany doesn’t have issues with police actually killing people yet.

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u/apple_kicks 12d ago edited 11d ago

Cops can still ruin lives without killing. Target minority groups and make false statements and evidence. Jobs and families can be lost. Pulling people over to intimidate. If members of minority groups reported crimes their cases and evidence mishandled or ignored.

We rightly see the deaths but also ignore how Nazi cops can really weaponise or destroy legal system

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u/Loki-L 12d ago

Unfortunately that is not the case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Oury_Jalloh

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u/Little-Revolution- 12d ago

For a country of 80 million, having to go back to 2005 is very good to find an example.

Here in the US all you need to go is go back a week at most.

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u/ceratophaga 12d ago

There are more than the one, but Jalloh is a particularly open wound that is still present today. The same officers who killed Jalloh also killed a drunken man in the 90's and a homeless man in the early 2000's, and covered for their son who tortured and killed a Chinese student in 2016.

And while nobody died of that (yet), there is also the case of police officers in Frankfurt leaking the private information of an attorney to a right-wing terror organization called NSU 2.0, which threatened the attorney with murder and rape of both her and her 2? 3? year old daughter.

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u/TorontoGuyinToronto 12d ago

A day at most.

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u/NineteenSkylines 12d ago

Still vanishingly rare

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u/Dahhhkness 12d ago

Rare enough that killings by police actually surprise people.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/MuckleMcDuckle 12d ago

It surprises us when an situation does not result in police killing someone...

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u/cultured_banana_slug 12d ago

You mean they didn't shoot the dog? Wow....

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u/MuckleMcDuckle 12d ago

Ammo shortages, ya know. They'll get around to it later.

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u/Mmmm_Watch_YouSay 12d ago

When ever I see a black person pulled over I want to pull over too to make sure they have a witness or don't get needlessly harassed. Because you are right, it is not shocking when we see it on the news -- and I wonder if we stood up for fellow citizens during the encounter instead of waiting till it's a Candlelight vigile, maybe police would start to get the message.

But I always wondered if it would be

a. patronizing to the person pulled over

b. seen as a imminent threat by the officer and exacerbate the situation.

c. what very well may be a routine stop by a disciplined cop just doing their job.

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u/CodenameVillain 12d ago

I hope someone clarifies this for you too. I've had the same thoughts but not stopped for fear of those 3 things, or making it worse for the person they stopped.

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u/kurburux 12d ago

There were more "mysterious" deaths at the same police station...

Also, check out how German secret service Verfassungsschutz was involved in the NSU terror cell. Actively looking the other way or helping them.

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u/JimmyJamesRoS 12d ago

You didn't read the article. The very first sentence linked how they found out about these guys.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-20-police-officers-investigated-over-far-right-chats/a-57832510

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u/Kelevracado4287 12d ago

We know a thing or two, because we've seen a thing or two.

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u/APence 12d ago

”We are Nazis!”

”Bum Ba Dum, Dum Dum Dum Dum”

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u/dedicated-pedestrian 12d ago

Were* Nazis.

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u/Rhesusmonkeydave 12d ago

We were Nazis, still are but used to be too.

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u/Skatchbro 12d ago

Glad to see you’re still alive and kicking, Mitch.

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u/Skow1379 12d ago edited 12d ago

This is how you react to news like that. Not a stern talking to. If you find this, it's a rooted issue and the entire thing needs to be scrapped.

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u/National_Rub5714 12d ago

Wish Americans took action like this. We have a festering right-wing infestation that needs eradication.

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u/Glass_Cleaner 12d ago

A whole year of nonstop protesting got maybe a handful of abusive cops suspended with pay and like one arrested. We need a new plan of attack, because I don't see our governments making much changes.

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u/thelastestgunslinger 12d ago

If you want change, your protests need to be local and state level. State level legislators control gerrymandering. Local legislatures fund police.

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u/ImJustHere4theMoons 12d ago

America will never, and I mean NEVER take this kind of action because a fascist police force is all part of the plan. It's not just a matter of looking the other way. Those in charge are nurturing cops that abuse their authority.

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u/SordidDreams 12d ago

The thing is, it's easy to do when it's a small special unit, because it's not a big deal to not have one for a while until the new one is up and running. When your entire police force is infested with Nazis, on the other hand...

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u/e36_maho 12d ago

I can guarantee you that it's not just this one small special unit. It may not be as bad as in the US, but jobs like this seem to have a magnetic effect on nazis here. I remember a special force team working out at my gym around 2010 for a few months, they were talking about how they were looking forward to "beating up some kanacks" (kinda the n-word equivalent mainly used for turks and arabs and other Muslim minorities) at a demonstration they were supposed to look over.

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u/gabriyankee 12d ago

This happened in Spain and nothing happened.

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u/mrducky78 12d ago

Sentiment towards fascism in Spain is a hell of a lot more welcoming than in Germany.

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u/GringoinCDMX 12d ago

I had the weirdest conversation with a Spanish bf of a friend of mine when we were both drunk where he was talking about the positives of francoist Spain and how they need to bring some of that back before the socialists destroy everything. Known the guy for a while and never heard him talk anything like that (was very anti-trump etc, he's a us citizen now as well) and I just kinda nodded along with him to see where he went and it was a weird ass convo my man

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u/mrducky78 12d ago

Same applies to a lot of elderly in the eastern bloc/russia with the USSR. They look back at the times with nostalgia and fondness. Things were simpler then.

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u/Pollia 12d ago

There's a lot of studies and discussions about this.

The simple truth is that humanity as a whole are lazy. Totalitarian regimes are simple. You don't have to hihk about politics because all the political thought is done for you. You don't need to think about the why's and how's because all that's done for you.

It's the idealistic life for many many people. Go about their day, ignorant to everything not in their immediate surroundings, and the machine runs around them perfectly fine.

Democracy is hard. You need to stay informed to vote. You need to vote often. Things you have 0 idea about are central to discussions when you do vote. Being ignorant isnt an option.

People hate needing to be informed because it necessarily means they can't just stay ignorant, which means they cant be lazy and move through life without worry.

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u/lionstealth 12d ago

Any chance that democracy also alienates the less intelligent, less educated, less wealthy members of society, because it makes them feel less than and incapable of keeping up? Totalitarianism would fix that if it It comes by way of populism.

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u/GringoinCDMX 12d ago

Dude is 28 😂

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u/H0vis 12d ago

See this right here is an object lesson in what the phrase 'A few bad apples spoils the barrel' means.

This police unit probably had only a small number of Nazis in it. But then the cops around them don't report them, and the cops around them work with them. And so ultimately you end up with a police unit that has Nazis in it and that also has people who are comfortable working with Nazis in it.

So suppose a fresh recruit joins the unit. He hears some Nazi shit. What's he going to do? Everybody tells him it's fine, it's normal, it's how they do. Is he going to report his entire unit? He doesn't know any better, he thinks this is how things work.

And just like that, the new recruit is just one more cop who is happy to work with racists and fascists and scumbags. That new recruit has learned the job wrong, he's tainted too. The system becomes self perpetuating.

The only fix, and yes it is dramatic, is to dump everybody involved and start from scratch.

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u/WoolfsongsLTD 12d ago

5 monkeys sit in a circle, with a pedestal in the middle. A banana on a string descends and hovers over the pedestal. One monkey grabs the banana, and the others are sprayed with ice cold water. This happens over and over again until the monkeys begin beating up anyone who goes to grab the banana.

One monkey is replaced with a new one, who immediately goes to grab the banana. He is savagely beaten and retreats. He has no idea about the ice cold water.

Eventually, all of the original monkeys are replaced, and you are left with 5 monkeys who know never to grab the banana, but none of them can articulate why except “that’s the way things have always been done around here.”

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u/Iron_Rod_Stewart 12d ago

This such a great illustration of how culture works, that its a shame that this experiment is a complete myth.

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u/WoolfsongsLTD 12d ago

It’s not so much a myth as it is a thought experiment.

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u/My22ndyear 12d ago

A parable

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u/i_have_tiny_ants 12d ago

This police unit probably had only a small number of Nazis in it. But then the cops around them don't report them, and the cops around them work with them. And so ultimately you end up with a police unit that has Nazis in it and that also has people who are comfortable working with Nazis in it.

It was actually a major tactic the real Nazis employed in their SS and concentration camp guard training. A small minority of them where horrible, the vast majority silent and a small minority would speak up, or attempt to leave, call in sick etc.

What they did was then select out the good minority, which then resulted in the bad one slowly pushing the limits and actions of the majority. In an other sense literally a few bad apples ruing the barrel.

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u/T1N7 12d ago

Not really a few couple bad apple situation tbh, 17 out of the total 19 members of the unit shared Nazi-symbols in private chats

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u/daiaomori 12d ago

Dude, an SEK unit is only 40-70 people, which means considering investigations into 20 people (19 active members) that there are at least 30% Nazis in that Unit.

It’s like a SWAT team.

And it was crystal clear for at least a year that something is utterly wrong in Hessens police organization; of course it was denied for quite a while, but I guess this random surfacing of child porn plus Nazi chats was the final drop that made the barrel flow over (is that a sayin in englisch? ;D)

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u/Swagmatic1 12d ago

Not small number. We have nazi police scandals every two weeks.

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u/hobokenbob 12d ago

and that's how you deal with a few bad apples

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u/AcEffect3 12d ago

that's pretty much the point of the metaphor

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u/B33FHAMM3R 12d ago

Yeah people always leave the "Spoil the bunch" part of that saying out.

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u/TezMono 12d ago

A bad apple spoils the baby with the bath water?

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u/salondesert 12d ago

A bad apple performs a PIT maneuver against a pregnant woman looking for a safe spot to pull over?

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u/The_Lost_Google_User 12d ago

Delete whole thing and try again. Only way it works.

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u/luckyjoe83 12d ago

In France, dozens if not hundreds of cops are implicated in such behavior (on private chats, private facebook groups), they have been exposed for at least 2 years, and almost nothing has been done so far... Racism, sexism, antisemitism, mocking the death or eye-loss of protesters, being ready for civil war, anti-islam comments ... you name it.

guardian's article about it

article in french from Liberation

in english but paywall, you can still read the header

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u/MA_DTX 12d ago

That’s because it’s against the law in Germany to be a nazi, spread nazi doctrine, or share nazi symbology. This is the reason the German government can take action to prevent Nazism from spreading again.

As far as I’m aware other countries like france do not have laws banning ideologies the way Germany has laws against Nazism.

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u/evident_lee 12d ago

Right wing messages shared by police units. I am shocked I say. shocked and stunned. Now could we do this in the United States

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u/noeagle77 12d ago

It would be the great purge of the police of 2021 if that happens.

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u/Gonads_of_Thor 12d ago

So what you are saying is we would be creating jobs for honest, non racist, non murdering, Americans?

I am down.

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u/Barter1996 12d ago

Are you willing to pay them more? That's generally how we prevent American problems from taking hold in Europe. Higher salaries generally means higher entry requirements and training standards so you can send the angsty racist psychos packing.

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u/Gonads_of_Thor 12d ago

YES. But with all that overtime pay a lot get, it sounds like they need to actually hire citizen patrols that interact with the community, not arresting, but finding out the specific needs of the community, earning back trust. And then the arrests of the real bad actors in the community can happen, proper social funding can be directed to help heal and repair and grow communities.

Reinvest, dont just punish.

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u/SprinklesFancy5074 12d ago

they need to actually hire citizen patrols that interact with the community, not arresting, but finding out the specific needs of the community, earning back trust.

Make a new rule that says cops can only patrol their own neighborhoods.

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u/DrunkBeavis 12d ago

That might make the cops accountable and trustworthy, or it might be like militarizing the homeowners association.

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u/Gonads_of_Thor 12d ago

So what you are saying is we need to eat the rich? The loudest of the HOA?

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u/DrunkBeavis 12d ago

Of course not. Don't be silly. We only need to eat the rich people that think money entitles them to any influence beyond their single vote.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

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u/Patriarchy-4-Life 12d ago

Cops are generally paid well. Some small towns have low pay, but on average they are paid plenty.

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u/dollfaise 12d ago

Yeah, Forbes collated some payment info and it's not bad, some cops get paid more than some professions that require Master's degrees.

For reference:

The 2019 real median earnings of men ($57,456) and women ($47,299) who worked full-time, year-round

A good number of states exceed that by a good bit, not going into whether the same applies regardless of gender.

In addition to above average salaries, police enjoy benefits, retirement packages, and insurance coverage options that usually exceed those offered by private employers. In some agencies, full retirement is attainable in 20 to 25 years regardless of age. This means if you start early, you can retire in your forties and start a new career while still drawing your police pension.

And:

The age of the officers at retirement ranged from 45 to 73, with the average being 55 years old. They had served on the force for an average of 26.4 years. Findings indicate that more than 89 percent remain alive.

This is compared to:

Men retire at an average age of 64, while for women, the average retirement age is 62.

I get the kneejerk reaction of "America = bad pay" but that doesn't apply to everyone. Cops do just fine. Another kneejerk reaction might be "but cops are in danger!" Actually, "According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents."

This is out of how many cops across the US? 800k+?

They don't even rank in the top ten for most dangerous jobs by BLS data. My Criminology professor, who was a veteran cop, said that many cops go their entire careers and never have to fire their guns.

A closer look at police officers who have fired their weapon on duty

In fact, only about a quarter (27%) of all officers say they have ever fired their service weapon while on the job, according to a separate Pew Research Center survey conducted by the National Police Research Platform.

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u/oooLapisooo 12d ago

is that inherently bad, though?

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u/Lady_DreadStar 12d ago edited 12d ago

AND go after those who knew and said nothing. That’s the persnickety difference. The US is quite famous for making rules/laws with no actual teeth behind it if it affect our precious cops or military. We’d fire the ones who chatted but let alllllllll the sympathizers slide because that would be too mean or something.

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u/FearlessDoodle 12d ago

The difference is in the United States, it’s not illegal to share extreme right wing views, even those related to being a Nazi, unless they act on it. In Germany, it is.

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u/J-Bonken 12d ago

Its a little bit more nuanced than that. Sharing Nazi stuff and making jokes about jews is not illegal. Even sharing opinions about reinstating the dictatorship is all cool, as long as you dont plan to take any actions. However, german police swears an oath that they will uphold and defend the german constitution. so them having those far right views is still not illegal, but they can be fired from the force, as they are clearly not in compliance with their oath.

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u/Corvus1412 12d ago

There are also some things that are illegal, like a nazi greeting (the one where you lift the right arm and say "Heil Hitler") and some other things maily about nazis.

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u/macphile 12d ago

The imagery is generally unwelcome. I went to Miniatur Wunderland (my spiritual fucking home--I could live there), and one of the smaller displays was of an army marching through a quaint little town. All their flags and stuff had a circle with nothing in it, like the Nazi iconography but without the swastika.

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u/Muffalo_Herder 12d ago

We'd lose 90% of them overnight. It would be wonderful.

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u/MagicMoonMen 12d ago

In America they'd just say "they were blowing off steam".

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u/merlinsbeers 12d ago

Shouldn't the non-Nazi members have arrested the Nazi members?

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u/_eg0_ 12d ago edited 12d ago

That's why they are going after them too and the unit was disbanded.

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u/elmantray 12d ago

It's a huge problem right now in Germany but basically for years neo-nazis have been recruiting really hard in police departments and military units. This has created an atmosphere where even if you report a fellow officer/service member it is likely the person you report them to is a neo-nazi and will not investigate. This has happened on multiple occasions and it's worrying because they are planning for "day-x" which is basically the overthrow of the government/end of democracy.

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u/Snaxlotl 12d ago

This podcast from NYT is a really fascinating look at the phenomenon in Germany, highlighting the discovery of an ex-military neo Nazi plan to execute a terrorist attack on his own countrymen and blame it on Syrian refugees..

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u/pverflow 12d ago

im just dropping a name here Hans-Georg Maaßen. He was the head of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution. Which is basically a secret service that is tasked with protecting the Constitution.(Oh the FUCKING irony) Some far right group called NSU killed many people and there is a big discussion about the involvement of the FOPC under his reign. Right now he's openly sharing far right conspiracy theories and "news" articles. He also said some very anti-Semitic things recently. German institutions always were partially blind on the "right" eye and they still would continue to do it if the right extremism wasn't front and center and "normal" again. The AFD is spewing right wing sewage every day all day and get way to many votes. So they can't ignore it anymore. Something has to happen.

https://www.rbb-online.de/kontraste/archiv/kontraste-vom-03-06-2021/rechtsradikale-narrative-aus-dem-sicherheitsapparat.html
https://netzpolitik.org/2019/der-enthemmte-maassen-zeigt-wie-gefaehrlich-der-verfassungsschutz-ist/

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalsozialistischer_Untergrund#Verhalten_der_Sicherheitsbeh%C3%B6rden

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u/SammyGreen 12d ago

Jesus he even looks like one of the Gestapo from Indiana Jones

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u/GuitarCFD 12d ago

I was about to say as an American...but let me broaden that. As a Human I hope the world would not sit back and watch that happen.

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u/cgmcnama 12d ago

Well, this is pretty interesting as right now I'm listening to a NYT podcast (Day X) about extremist elements in military and police right now.

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u/KuhjaKnight 12d ago

Seventeen Hesse officers were suspected of spreading hatred-inciting texts and symbols of former Nazi organizations — outlawed under post-war German law, said prosecutors — mainly in 2016 and 2017.

Aged between 29 and 54, all but one officer had been on active duty. Now, none were now allowed to perform duties, Frankfurt police chief Gerhard Bereswill explained on Wednesday. One had already been suspended.

Germany may have given the world the term Nazi, but they also acted swiftly to prevent it from gaining a strong foothold ever again. They outlawed anything related to it after World War II. These cops have been removed from service now.

Cops are more susceptible to right-wing ideologies by the nature of their job, but at least Germany works to stop it as much as possible.

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u/zone-zone 12d ago

prevent it from gaining a strong foothold ever again

Alternate Right Party wants to know your location...

Germany does a lot to prevent nazi stuff, but there is still a huge problem

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u/Noxocopter 12d ago

I've read so many similar posts over the years by now.. it's so obvious. I don't think our special forces - your Dutch neighbours - are very different. I think the army generally attracts nationalists

Fuck you though, we don't need you POS

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u/bedroom_fascist 12d ago

It's almost like being a cop attracts fascists.

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u/StabTheSnitches 12d ago

Dude the chilling part about this was some history student talked to me about this in LoL post game screen chat. He was also talking about the military planning a coup I don't know about that one

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u/-Jiras 12d ago

As someone living in Germany, good! This behavior should not be tolerated nor overlooked

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u/Black_Magic_M-66 12d ago

Maybe they'll immigrate to the US and find jobs.

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u/fronce14 12d ago

Wow, holding extremists accountable? What an idea!

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u/benicegetrich 12d ago

Nazism is like the flu, damnnnn ignorance is contagious

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u/Thugnificent83 12d ago

I love how Germans not only acknowledge their shitty past, but are genuinely ashamed of it to the point that if even a whiff of that Nazi shit is detected, they cut it out like cancer!

Now why the fuck can't we get a little of that in the U.S?

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u/Jackal_6 12d ago

Fascism? In a police force? Oh, my!

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u/PrinceHumperTinkTink 12d ago

I feel like Germany really doesn't mess around with this stuff. The world hates Nazis, but Germany really hates Nazis.

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u/ZoroITBS 12d ago

well while it's great that one case has been "solved" (for the lack of better words) but the Germany Police forces still have a lot of Nazis inside. These chats pop up from time to time and it's obvious and common knowledge that there's a much bigger Problem underneath. The police officers who might not relate to those racist sentiments are often not going to call it out as they are scared that they're basically be seen as "rats" & probably pursued by the other Nazis.

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u/Rexli178 12d ago

Man I wish I lived in a country where if it was found out a police force was filled with Nazis it would be disbanded and replaced.

OH GOD IT HURTS!

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